Monday, March 21, 2011
Stocker gains on E+ fescue/legume pastures
When I ran stockers a few years ago I fed 3 lbs per head per day of pelleted ddg all spring and summer. The stockers gained 1.6 lbs per day. I am really hoping that we can get 1.5-1.6 lbs adg on stockpiled forage and spring growth without ddg supplement(Feb 15-July 15) because ddg prices are sky high and feeding it really takes a lot of profit out of the calves. I think we will try it this year and keep our fingers crossed. I plan on having ddg on hand and feed it as the calves manure dictates, but I'm hoping that is seldom if ever. Interestingly, there is a ton of info on the internet about stocker gains on fescue and fescue/legume pastures, unfortunately results range from under a pound to 2.5# adg....hardly anything to rely on. If the stockers only gain a pound a day, we'll likely lose a chunk of money, but I think it's a chance worth taking. I feel a little like the degenerate gambler who's lost the past 10 hands but who's now thinking "I'm due!"
Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Spring has sprung
The grass is really starting to green up at the ranch. I'd say we have an inch or two of new growth and with a nice rain a few days ago and 75 degree sunny weather today and tomorrow, I'm hoping the grass really starts to pop. We are pretty much out of stockpiled forage and so will now begin the very frustrating task of "chasing grass". With only a few hundred head of our calves and a few hundred cows at the ranch now, the grass should handily out pace them. We hope to have everything off by July and stockpile forage until bringing stockers in in Dec-Jan. I have to say I'm pretty happy with the grass at the ranch. It looks a little better than the neighbors and I'm confident that it will quickly out pace any other pasture in the area...at least that's what I'm hoping. I was going to take some pics, but there just wasn't anything very compelling to show.
Our calves are framey and not overly fleshy so should do very well on the spring flush. The biggest concern is the high protein in this early grass/legumes that produces the sheet-cake manure...I don't think the calves do very well when that rumen is clearly out of sorts. I've discussed with Hal (at length) the possibility of keeping stockpile all the way up into May so that the cattle are never eating that new growth fescue/clover that creates issues. I also hate chasing grass...I know that when the grass is only 3-6 inches tall, a single bite takes it down to the ground and that is NOT what any grazier wants to see. To run on stockpiled forage up into May will require a lot of management, and most likely push our stocker purchase back into late Jan or even Feb. We would like to keep the stockers for 150 days. If we want to run on stockpile until May 1, then we would turn cattle in 75 days prior to May 1 (Feb 15) and pull out 75 days after (July 15). I am very concerned about water quality if we keep the calves into July, but have decided that if we make 150, 10 acre pastures (about what we have done in the past), we could move twice a day and hopefully be able to get to fresh water at least twice a day. I think this is very workable. I will go through my calculations in a future post of how we are going to determine our stocking rate.
Our calves are framey and not overly fleshy so should do very well on the spring flush. The biggest concern is the high protein in this early grass/legumes that produces the sheet-cake manure...I don't think the calves do very well when that rumen is clearly out of sorts. I've discussed with Hal (at length) the possibility of keeping stockpile all the way up into May so that the cattle are never eating that new growth fescue/clover that creates issues. I also hate chasing grass...I know that when the grass is only 3-6 inches tall, a single bite takes it down to the ground and that is NOT what any grazier wants to see. To run on stockpiled forage up into May will require a lot of management, and most likely push our stocker purchase back into late Jan or even Feb. We would like to keep the stockers for 150 days. If we want to run on stockpile until May 1, then we would turn cattle in 75 days prior to May 1 (Feb 15) and pull out 75 days after (July 15). I am very concerned about water quality if we keep the calves into July, but have decided that if we make 150, 10 acre pastures (about what we have done in the past), we could move twice a day and hopefully be able to get to fresh water at least twice a day. I think this is very workable. I will go through my calculations in a future post of how we are going to determine our stocking rate.
Monday, March 14, 2011
Preg checked the cows and worked the calves
I think I'm starting to understand why this blog is popular with people: everyone reads this and instantly feels much better about their own operation. So we preg checked the cows at the goat ranch last week and we got a 55% conception rate (for a 75 day breeding window). We've never had a number that bad and of course a logical person would blame the mob grazing. Maybe I'm just blind to the obvious, but I'm not ready to do that. We calve in May and June which means we breed in August and September. This past summer was record hot and Hal and I think that it had a significant effect on our bulls and to a lesser extent our cows. The cows were in pretty good shape (BCS=5) at calving and we know that is by far the most important factor in getting them rebred. I just don't understand how the mob grazing could have had much of an impact. Anyway, I'm extremely disappointed and will now be selling off nearly half of our cows in a few months (we're going to hold them for 60-90 days to try to get them bred before we sell them). I think the future is extremely bright for cow/calf producers, but I have to admit I'm looking forward to running stockers.
Friday, March 4, 2011
News flash...
Grazing of pasture can improve soil quality and grass yield We've landed on the moon!
Also wanted to include a link to my new company...in case any of you are looking for atv or utv wheels for your four wheelers.
Also wanted to include a link to my new company...in case any of you are looking for atv or utv wheels for your four wheelers.
Tuesday, March 1, 2011
I'm always amazed at the power of the internet...An email from France
Hello Nathan,
I'm a young crop advisor in Normandy, north west of France, exactly 15miles where André Voisin used to farm. My parents are farmer (mainly crops : potatoes, flax, beet roots, wheat...) and even if I'm not a cattle man I read all your blog with a lot of attention.
I did an internship on a farm in Colby, KS in 2008, and met Jey Fuhrer from the NRCS of Bismarck, SD when he came to France. He showed us what Gabe Brown did on his farm (http://www.sustainableranching.com/) and I was very interested about "mob grazing".
I'm reading "Grass Productivity" from André Voisin and I am a bit disapointed on some points. André Voisin (and the other who followed him ) told us to begin grazing at 9" and to go out of the pasture at 3" after 3days of stay on the same paddock. It is known that at this high the grass is at its maximum value.
You are leaving the grass to rest for a long time, wich is very good for its productivity, but according to your pictures you are coming back when the grass is very tall. Is there a nutrition reason why you are doing that ? Voisin worked mainly with dairy but he wrote that he was also right for cattle. In the spring he also recommend to run the cattle when the grass is just regrowing to top off all the plants, give some food, and not having to run after grass growth that would be too tall... what is your opinion on that ?
I read some articles on mob grazing and holistic management. I don't understand what is the advantage of having some grass trampled. I understand it can provide food for soil life, but in France I found that leaving some grass behind the cows leads to a poor regrowth, so I don't know what to think.
The flora of your field may change with mob grazing but I think you will see it along the years. I would like to thank you about your blog, I'm checking it regularly, I like the weed pictures and would be curious to see how it will turn this year.
Victor
And my response:
Hello Victor,
Thanks for the email. I grew up not far from Colby, KS…small world. Voisin’s book is very interesting and I learned an enormous amount from it. The one big thing I took away was the importance of observation. I spent many hours watching my animals graze…I would never have done that before reading “Grass Productivity”. Voisin was a master of observation.
There is a lot of talk around when to turn back into a pasture to graze it and how tall the grass should be. I just read an article in The Stockman Grassfarmer about the importance of energy versus protein and I agreed with much of what was written. When I ran stockers a few years ago and even with my cows last year, in the early spring we see one to two months of what I call “sheet cake” cow manure…the manure is very runny and green. It’s a clear sign of too much protein and I have seen the cattle perform poorly when they get to this point. It is important to keep your cow patties looking like pumpkin pie. It is a good sign that the cattle are eating a balanced diet. I would suggest to you that you observe your cattle’s manure versus the height of your grass….experiment with it. You will quickly find out what works. All grass is different, so I can’t tell you how tall your grass should be, but you will quickly learn what is too tall or too short simply based on the manure patties. As the grass get’s shorter, your protein levels will increase and your manure patties will get runnier, as it gets taller, your energy levels will increase (and protein decrease) and manure patties will firm up. So it will depend on the class of cattle that you are running (ie: stockers need more protein than cows, wet cows need more than dry cows) and the relative protein values in your grass that determine when (how tall) you should be grazing your grass. I personally like to let the grass/forage get as tall as possible (maximum grass production), it seldom seems that we are lacking in protein, but we have worked hard to get clovers started that are likely increasing the protein levels in our forages, regardless of height.
I think the trampling of the grass is absolutely a critical piece to the success of mob grazing. If you can get the grass trampled down into the soil (or at least making contact with the soil) it’s just like you have fertilized that ground. I have been amazed with the quality and quantity of regrowth we get when we do a good job of trampling the grass in. I’m not sure why you are seeing that it is hindering growth…you need to make sure that the grass is being “trampled” into the soil and you are not just leaving some grass behind. If you are leaving the cows for 3 days, you are likely NOT trampling in any grass. 3 days is way too long to leave the cows on a pasture and it would NOT be considered mob grazing. To get to mob grazing, you need to at least move your cattle every day, and preferably twice or more each. It’s the only way you can get your densities up to take advantage of a true “mob”.
Thanks again for your email and best of luck in your grazing….keep me posted as to your results!
Nathan
I'm a young crop advisor in Normandy, north west of France, exactly 15miles where André Voisin used to farm. My parents are farmer (mainly crops : potatoes, flax, beet roots, wheat...) and even if I'm not a cattle man I read all your blog with a lot of attention.
I did an internship on a farm in Colby, KS in 2008, and met Jey Fuhrer from the NRCS of Bismarck, SD when he came to France. He showed us what Gabe Brown did on his farm (http://www.sustainableranching.com/) and I was very interested about "mob grazing".
I'm reading "Grass Productivity" from André Voisin and I am a bit disapointed on some points. André Voisin (and the other who followed him ) told us to begin grazing at 9" and to go out of the pasture at 3" after 3days of stay on the same paddock. It is known that at this high the grass is at its maximum value.
You are leaving the grass to rest for a long time, wich is very good for its productivity, but according to your pictures you are coming back when the grass is very tall. Is there a nutrition reason why you are doing that ? Voisin worked mainly with dairy but he wrote that he was also right for cattle. In the spring he also recommend to run the cattle when the grass is just regrowing to top off all the plants, give some food, and not having to run after grass growth that would be too tall... what is your opinion on that ?
I read some articles on mob grazing and holistic management. I don't understand what is the advantage of having some grass trampled. I understand it can provide food for soil life, but in France I found that leaving some grass behind the cows leads to a poor regrowth, so I don't know what to think.
The flora of your field may change with mob grazing but I think you will see it along the years. I would like to thank you about your blog, I'm checking it regularly, I like the weed pictures and would be curious to see how it will turn this year.
Victor
And my response:
Hello Victor,
Thanks for the email. I grew up not far from Colby, KS…small world. Voisin’s book is very interesting and I learned an enormous amount from it. The one big thing I took away was the importance of observation. I spent many hours watching my animals graze…I would never have done that before reading “Grass Productivity”. Voisin was a master of observation.
There is a lot of talk around when to turn back into a pasture to graze it and how tall the grass should be. I just read an article in The Stockman Grassfarmer about the importance of energy versus protein and I agreed with much of what was written. When I ran stockers a few years ago and even with my cows last year, in the early spring we see one to two months of what I call “sheet cake” cow manure…the manure is very runny and green. It’s a clear sign of too much protein and I have seen the cattle perform poorly when they get to this point. It is important to keep your cow patties looking like pumpkin pie. It is a good sign that the cattle are eating a balanced diet. I would suggest to you that you observe your cattle’s manure versus the height of your grass….experiment with it. You will quickly find out what works. All grass is different, so I can’t tell you how tall your grass should be, but you will quickly learn what is too tall or too short simply based on the manure patties. As the grass get’s shorter, your protein levels will increase and your manure patties will get runnier, as it gets taller, your energy levels will increase (and protein decrease) and manure patties will firm up. So it will depend on the class of cattle that you are running (ie: stockers need more protein than cows, wet cows need more than dry cows) and the relative protein values in your grass that determine when (how tall) you should be grazing your grass. I personally like to let the grass/forage get as tall as possible (maximum grass production), it seldom seems that we are lacking in protein, but we have worked hard to get clovers started that are likely increasing the protein levels in our forages, regardless of height.
I think the trampling of the grass is absolutely a critical piece to the success of mob grazing. If you can get the grass trampled down into the soil (or at least making contact with the soil) it’s just like you have fertilized that ground. I have been amazed with the quality and quantity of regrowth we get when we do a good job of trampling the grass in. I’m not sure why you are seeing that it is hindering growth…you need to make sure that the grass is being “trampled” into the soil and you are not just leaving some grass behind. If you are leaving the cows for 3 days, you are likely NOT trampling in any grass. 3 days is way too long to leave the cows on a pasture and it would NOT be considered mob grazing. To get to mob grazing, you need to at least move your cattle every day, and preferably twice or more each. It’s the only way you can get your densities up to take advantage of a true “mob”.
Thanks again for your email and best of luck in your grazing….keep me posted as to your results!
Nathan
Friday, January 14, 2011
New Study Reveals Crossbreeding Advantages
Crossbreeding Pays
Most of you Beef readers will be shocked to learn the results of a new study funded by the Herford Association that shows an economic advantage to crossbreeding. And why are we still spending money on this? We've landed on the moon!!!!!!
Most of you Beef readers will be shocked to learn the results of a new study funded by the Herford Association that shows an economic advantage to crossbreeding. And why are we still spending money on this? We've landed on the moon!!!!!!
Tuesday, January 11, 2011
Letter from a reader
When I started this blog I really didn't think anyone would read it and I really didn't care...it was a way for me to keep track of things we'd done at the ranch and a nice visual and written history of our successes and failures along the way. I wanted to look back on it to learn what had worked and what hadn't. But I've been amazed how many emails I get from people that have stumbled onto it and are wanting to learn more about mob grazing. I'm so happy that this blog can be a benefit to those who wish to read it...it never crossed my mind that so many people would want to discuss mob grazing with me! Since I haven't been posting much I decided to post an email I got recently and my response. Hope your winter has been as nice as ours!
Nathan,
I was wondering if you came to any conclusions on your problem with scours. Sounds like you are moving to an all stocker operation so I wasn't sure if you would be discussing the scours problem any more so I decided to email. Do you think it had anything to do with your higher utilization rate? I read that you were trying to eat more to control the brush and thought maybe that had an ill effect on the calving situation. After reading alot of what Greg Judy is doing, sounds like he had quite a train wreck while focusing on landscape. Sounds like things improved after he went to focusing on cow performance, especially last 90 days before calving. His target now is 30% graze and 70% trample, if I understand him correctly. I was also wondering if there was a relationship between the bcs of cows with problem calves and those that had calves without scours. I do not have near the numbers that you have, but have noticed that some of the cows just haven't adapted to the low inputs and mob grazing well. I had a lot of pinkeye this fall and it didn't matter the condition of the cow, as some would suggest. I also have read that bcs at breedbac time can have an influence, and, if that is the case, alot of my cows were on a downhill slide during the rough winter weather that we experienced last year here in northwest Missouri. I turned the bull in Dec. 1 and the weather really was bad from Christmas day on. Maybe there is some truth to that theory?? and the cause for my pinkeye.
Last year was my first trial run with the mob grazing with mixed results. I sure didn't do it well enough to have near enough stockpile. Ragweed was terrible, and i was not sure if it was the perfect ragweed year or my grazing practice that caused it. I definately did not want to sound like I knew a lot about the mob grazing, quite the contrary. Reading your blog is great and I just was hoping there you had found some answers so some of us following in your footsteps don't have the same problems. Thanks for reading and I hope you carry on with your blog and wish you luck with your stockers.
KR
Hey K,
Thanks so much for the kind email. There is no doubt that last winter had a negative effect on the cows. It was the toughest winter we’ve had here in recent memory. That said, I thought the cows were in pretty good condition going into calving season..I would say they were 4-6’s with the 4’s being the older cows. I think by far the most important thing in preventing scours is bcs at time of calving and I really think ours was adequate…certainly not bad enough to see the kind of train wreck we had. At the end of the day, I think it was a combination of a lot of things with the 2 primary culprits being 1. The stress on the calf when it got left by its mother during a move and 2. The introduction of some purchased bred heifers/pairs a few weeks before we started calving. We can solve for problem number 2 by not introducing any outside animals that close to calving, but I have no idea how to solve for problem #1…we tried about everything this year with little success.
Mob grazing will definitely separate the weak…our weak cows just fell over dead…I’m a little embarrassed to say that, but it happened. We had a few cows that really didn’t look that poor that just gave up…we blamed some of that on the origin of the cows (Wyoming/SD) and the fact that they are relatively straight bred angus, but the mob grazing certainly hastened things. The interesting thing was that we had more grass this past 12 months than we’ve ever had. The cattle were never hungry. I think the strong cattle simply got the best groceries, the weak got enough to eat, but it wasn’t the most nutritious. I’m very comfortable with the way we graze a pasture, which is probably around 60-70% utilization, 30-40% trompage. Not saying Greg is wrong, we just do it differently. I don’t worry much about ragweed…there’s always a time of year during the mob grazing season that hits that ragweed just right and it goes crazy. It doesn’t bother me a bit, our cattle graze it all down the next time thru. I don’t see weeds, I see forage.
To conclude, keep tinkering with your mob grazing until you get to a situation that works for you. Everyone has different challenges and different goals. And while I am moving to stockers next year, I still believe a person can mob graze a cow herd, it’s just a hell of a lot harder than mob grazing stockers. Two years ago I could move 800 head of stockers in 6 minutes. I would spend 15-30 minutes building fence and 5-10 minutes moving stockers and I would go eat breakfast at 7:00 am wondering what the hell I was going to do the rest of the day. With the cows, my ranch manager and I worked some days from sun up to sun down chasing sick calves and trying to get the cow herd in one bunch for most of the calving season….I still have nightmares. And I think stockers do a much better job of “mob grazing” than the cows do. So my mind is pretty well made up. There’s not much to report on the blog during the winter…we should have more than enough stockpile to get us thru the winter which means another winter of feeding ZERO bales of hay. It’s nice to say that knowing we are running over 50% more cows this year than we were 3 years ago.
Thanks again for the email,
Nathan
Nathan,
I was wondering if you came to any conclusions on your problem with scours. Sounds like you are moving to an all stocker operation so I wasn't sure if you would be discussing the scours problem any more so I decided to email. Do you think it had anything to do with your higher utilization rate? I read that you were trying to eat more to control the brush and thought maybe that had an ill effect on the calving situation. After reading alot of what Greg Judy is doing, sounds like he had quite a train wreck while focusing on landscape. Sounds like things improved after he went to focusing on cow performance, especially last 90 days before calving. His target now is 30% graze and 70% trample, if I understand him correctly. I was also wondering if there was a relationship between the bcs of cows with problem calves and those that had calves without scours. I do not have near the numbers that you have, but have noticed that some of the cows just haven't adapted to the low inputs and mob grazing well. I had a lot of pinkeye this fall and it didn't matter the condition of the cow, as some would suggest. I also have read that bcs at breedbac time can have an influence, and, if that is the case, alot of my cows were on a downhill slide during the rough winter weather that we experienced last year here in northwest Missouri. I turned the bull in Dec. 1 and the weather really was bad from Christmas day on. Maybe there is some truth to that theory?? and the cause for my pinkeye.
Last year was my first trial run with the mob grazing with mixed results. I sure didn't do it well enough to have near enough stockpile. Ragweed was terrible, and i was not sure if it was the perfect ragweed year or my grazing practice that caused it. I definately did not want to sound like I knew a lot about the mob grazing, quite the contrary. Reading your blog is great and I just was hoping there you had found some answers so some of us following in your footsteps don't have the same problems. Thanks for reading and I hope you carry on with your blog and wish you luck with your stockers.
KR
Hey K,
Thanks so much for the kind email. There is no doubt that last winter had a negative effect on the cows. It was the toughest winter we’ve had here in recent memory. That said, I thought the cows were in pretty good condition going into calving season..I would say they were 4-6’s with the 4’s being the older cows. I think by far the most important thing in preventing scours is bcs at time of calving and I really think ours was adequate…certainly not bad enough to see the kind of train wreck we had. At the end of the day, I think it was a combination of a lot of things with the 2 primary culprits being 1. The stress on the calf when it got left by its mother during a move and 2. The introduction of some purchased bred heifers/pairs a few weeks before we started calving. We can solve for problem number 2 by not introducing any outside animals that close to calving, but I have no idea how to solve for problem #1…we tried about everything this year with little success.
Mob grazing will definitely separate the weak…our weak cows just fell over dead…I’m a little embarrassed to say that, but it happened. We had a few cows that really didn’t look that poor that just gave up…we blamed some of that on the origin of the cows (Wyoming/SD) and the fact that they are relatively straight bred angus, but the mob grazing certainly hastened things. The interesting thing was that we had more grass this past 12 months than we’ve ever had. The cattle were never hungry. I think the strong cattle simply got the best groceries, the weak got enough to eat, but it wasn’t the most nutritious. I’m very comfortable with the way we graze a pasture, which is probably around 60-70% utilization, 30-40% trompage. Not saying Greg is wrong, we just do it differently. I don’t worry much about ragweed…there’s always a time of year during the mob grazing season that hits that ragweed just right and it goes crazy. It doesn’t bother me a bit, our cattle graze it all down the next time thru. I don’t see weeds, I see forage.
To conclude, keep tinkering with your mob grazing until you get to a situation that works for you. Everyone has different challenges and different goals. And while I am moving to stockers next year, I still believe a person can mob graze a cow herd, it’s just a hell of a lot harder than mob grazing stockers. Two years ago I could move 800 head of stockers in 6 minutes. I would spend 15-30 minutes building fence and 5-10 minutes moving stockers and I would go eat breakfast at 7:00 am wondering what the hell I was going to do the rest of the day. With the cows, my ranch manager and I worked some days from sun up to sun down chasing sick calves and trying to get the cow herd in one bunch for most of the calving season….I still have nightmares. And I think stockers do a much better job of “mob grazing” than the cows do. So my mind is pretty well made up. There’s not much to report on the blog during the winter…we should have more than enough stockpile to get us thru the winter which means another winter of feeding ZERO bales of hay. It’s nice to say that knowing we are running over 50% more cows this year than we were 3 years ago.
Thanks again for the email,
Nathan
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